[Vredeslijst] Vredeslijst Verzamelmail, Volume 35, Nummer 3

Ali Jansen a.ja op planet.nl
Wo Okt 5 11:21:32 CEST 2016


  Beste mensen,

Ik heb er al eens eerder over gemaild:de Engelstalige berichten op de 
vredeslijst zijn voor mij niet zomaar makkelijk te lezen. Dan haak ik af 
en dat is natuurlijk jammer!
Ik begrijp wel dat jullie het w.s. ook druk yhebben, maar is het  niet 
mogelijk om deze berichten in het Ned. te vertalen? Bovendien krijg ik 
al zoveel mail binnen in het Engels.

Vredesgroet, Ali Jansen
Email: a.ja op planet.nl

------ Origineel bericht ------
Van: vredeslijst-request op ddh.nl
Aan: vredeslijst op ddh.nl
Verzonden: 4-10-2016 12:00:01
Onderwerp: Vredeslijst Verzamelmail, Volume 35, Nummer 3

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>Onderwerpen van vandaag:
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>    1. Burgerdoden door Russische en coalitiebombardementen in SyriŽ
>       (vredesnieuws op vredesmedia.nl)
>    2. Re: Burgerdoden door Russische en coalitiebombardementen in
>       SyriŽ (Jeff)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Mon,  3 Oct 2016 17:00:03 +0200 (CEST)
>From: vredesnieuws op vredesmedia.nl
>To: vredeslijst op ddh.nl
>Subject: Burgerdoden door Russische en coalitiebombardementen in SyriŽ
>Message-ID: <20161003150003.60B522032B op web.ddh.nl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Een HTML-bijlage is gescrubt...
>URL: 
><http://lijsten.ddh.nl/pipermail/vredeslijst/attachments/20161003/db204348/attachment-0001.html>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2016 18:23:20 +0200
>From: Jeff <meisner op xs4all.nl>
>To: Midden oosten <midden-oosten op ddh.nl>,Vredeslijst
>  <vredeslijst op ddh.nl>
>Subject: Re: Burgerdoden door Russische en coalitiebombardementen in
>  SyriŽ
>Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20161003182320.05963340 op pop.xs4all.nl>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>The issue of civilian deaths through air bombardment is indeed among 
>the
>greatest tragedies of the Syrian civil war. There are only 3 forces
>dropping bombs in Syria: the Syrian government, the Russian forces in
>support of the Syrian government over the last year, and the US-led
>coalition over the last two years aimed solely at ISIS and some rebel
>forces (such as the former Jahbat al-Nusra, now Jahbat Fateh al-Sham) 
>which
>they label "terrorist."
>
>As these numbers (and other estimates) confirm, the Russian 
>intervention
>over the last year has killed a significantly larger number of 
>civilians
>than the American-led forces, and the Syrian air force has killed a 
>much
>larger number than that over 5 years of fighting mainly against rebel
>forces (but also against ISIS in Raqqa especially). Comparing these 
>numbers
>and their locations is relevant to understanding the dynamics of the 
>civil
>war and the scale of the brutality (for instance, noting the 
>approximately
>400 or so civilians killed in just the last week in east Aleppo!). 
>However
>even a SINGLE civilian killed as a result of bombing from the air can 
>be
>considered a war crime, and the usual excuses offered (such as "the 
>enemy
>was hiding inside a hospital" or "they were using human shields") are 
>not
>considered a valid defense.
>
>Bombing from the air in or around populated areas is therefore widely
>viewed as illegitimate regardless of the justifications supplied. It 
>will
>always turn the affected population against the forces responsible, 
>which
>is why it isn't used when they are actually seeking to win the 
>allegiance
>of the civilian population. Most Syrian rebels, in addition to 
>denouncing
>the bombing by the Syrian and Russian governments, also disagree with 
>the
>US coalition's use of air bombardment against ISIS. Even though they 
>view
>ISIS just as evil as the Assad government, they do not see bombing them
>from the air as a very effective or justifiable tactic.
>
>Indeed before the intervention by the US-led coalition, it was the Free
>Syrian Army (FSA) that played the greatest role in pushing back ISIS, 
>which
>was fighting mainly to conquer land held by Syrian rebels, not Assad's
>forces; this is how ISIS was pushed out of Aleppo. In 2014-2015 the 
>Kurdish
>forces (YPG) fought ISIS on the ground, famously liberating Kobane and
>other Kurdish areas in the north. Neither the FSA or YPG had an air 
>force,
>and their ground campaigns against ISIS met with the greatest success.
>Eventually the US-led coalition, not having had great success against 
>ISIS
>despite the continuing bombing, realized the need for ground forces in 
>that
>regard, and formed the so-called Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) largely
>through supplying arms and logistical support to Kurdish fighters 
>already
>fighting on the ground.
>
>These ground campaigns have been much more successful in pushing back 
>ISIS,
>causing little death to civilians. So although the Syrian rebels view 
>ISIS
>as a great danger and an enemy equal to that of the Syrian government, 
>they
>do not view the air campaign against ISIS as very effective nor as
>justifiable given the undue toll on civilians present in the areas 
>where
>this bombing often takes place. It is because of the unacceptability of
>bombing from the air, that Syrians in the affected areas have been 
>calling
>for a no-fly zone to prevent these innocent deaths, as we have been
>recently witnessing in Aleppo. It is also why they have repeatedly
>requested (but been refused) MANPADs (shoulder-fired anti-aircraft
>missiles) which would deter these bombing runs that have killed so many
>civilians in Syria.
>
>The world must affirm that the bombing of civilians from the air is
>unacceptable and should be prosecuted as a war crime!
>
>- Jeff
>
>
>At 17:00 03-10-16 +0200, vredesnieuws op vredesmedia.nl wrote:
>>Momenteel wordt er enorm veel gepubliceerd over de verschrikkelijke
>bombardementen in SyriŽ, waarbij veel burgerdoden vallen. Is het 
>terecht
>dat hierbij alleen naar Rusland en de Syrische regering gewezen wordt? 
>Hier
>vindt u de objectieve cijfers.
>>
>>De organisatie Airwars houdt al langere tijd de burgerslachtoffers bij 
>>die
>door de coalitie gemaakt worden. Wat korter doen ze het zelfde voor 
>Rusland.
>>
>>Zij komen op 1612 tot 2437 burgers die gedood zijn in bombardementen 
>>door
>de coalitie in de periode van augustus 2014 t/m september 2016. Voor
>Rusland zijn deze aantallen 6407 tot 8164 in de veel kortere periode 
>van
>oktober 2015 t/m september 2016.
>>
>>Conclusie is dus dat Rusland veel meer burgerslachtoffers maakt dan de
>coalitie, maar dat het aantal dat de coalitie maakt ook aanzienlijk is. 
>Er
>is dus alle reden om ook tegen de bombardementen van de coalitie te
>protesteren.
>>
>>Meer info en een uitvoerige verantwoording vindt u op www.airwars.org
>>http://lijsten.ddh.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/midden-oosten
>
>
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